Talking with a good mate and fellow west ham fan last night both older than we care to admit but when he said staying in the prem was more important than winning a cup i was stunned....yes we all know the argument going on about how the big clubs view the cups as an irritant and of little importance but hearing my friend basically say the same actually left me cold and wondering what is the point of supporting a club if there only reason for being was not winning anything but just staying in a league which they have very very little chance of ever winning....how pointless is that? winning a Trophy is what footballs about not just staying in a league.....times change but truthfully how could you be interested in sport if you never try to win anything in case it means you could drop out of the prem.....so do you agree with his P.O.V? or do you want to win something

you know the ones where you look for other results down the bottom and hope things have gone well and Today its not gone that bad at all so considering its the bindippers next we will not be that far behind come monday nights result and then hopefully we can concentrate on easier fixtures...spuds and chelski did not look to daunting and points to be had in those games we need to beat watford villa and norwich and burnley then who knows COYI put belief back in our hearts

Well, two massive games coming up and probably zero chance of any points. Tomorrow night brings back shocking memories for me, the league cup semi-final, the camera’s focused on our supporters, commentator saying “they don’t look happy and it’s a long drive home on the M6” at which my phone lights up with many texts saying you’ve been on telly, cheer up you miserable old XXXX :o)

I have been to the Etihad five times and each time its been well…difficult. Last season we were battered even if the score line didn’t reflect the nature of the one way traffic. By the way, what happened to the young full back that made his debut that night?

So with two fixtures on the horizon with no points, firmly in the bottom three, confidence at a low what are the real chances of escape? I really fear that this will be the season we finally drop into the Chumps. I think Saturday is significant, nothing but a win against Saints will suffice. A heavy loss combined with the Hammers United protest on the same day will be a defining moment for our club and maybe the owners?

Having this discussion with friends and the usual about size closeness to pitch atmosphere and of course style of stadium and if you could choose a ground to have a game on would which one....this of course threw up the usual the old Boleyn as was expected but this guy from Norway who heard us talking said you can have all the great stadiums in the world and you can keep them because for him this ground in Norway just takes your breath away and after seeing it i admit i would like go see it for real and have a kick about on it.....any others you know of come close?

https://youtu.be/MAajf_jxw14

Nolans back so does that put you "in the mood for dancing":-) will our lot improve now he is there to kick our lazy players arses? who knows but at least its after christmas because we all know how Kev liked the holidays off!

Ok Ok i know he is not every ones cup of tea and the club are still struggling and have dropped into the bottom three but although he does not play a style of football i like i cannot and will not hold him responsible for all the ills that trouble our club......For me its the players who need to bear the brunt of our frustration at performances on the pitch....yes Moyes trains the players and puts out the game plan and yes while his safety first approach cost us the win saturday the players can have no excuse for failing week in week out for poor performance after poor performance and not wanting or being able to implement the managers game plan whoever is at the helm.....they have a lifestyle we can only dream of and the very mercenary nature of the sport means that why should you care if the club you are currently playing for get relegated because your agent has already lined up a move elsewhere regardless so no need to put your body on the line or kill yourself running for a ball and not going in for a tackle that could cause injury and put your next move in jeopardy....Kevin Nolan joins the coaching staff today will he make a difference? well it cannot hurt and will help Moyes who eyes wide open new what a basket case this club is and being hamstrung with one scout and just two coaches how on earth is he expected to work miracles with those kind of resources....so while he has some responsibility for me it starts at the very top with the lazy way our club is run and that kind of attitude has sunk down to the players who apart from a few do not really care one way or another.

Are the players sulking? are they still pissed off over the team changes for the Oxford cup game that blew up spectacularly in El Pels face....if not that then what is the reason behind the total lack of belief in there own ability...if it was down to the training and tactics then they should of manned up and spoken out to the manager and said so....but this constant malaise that seems to surround this club is ridiculous we have a good spell then bam we just lose the plot and spiral out of control and it has happened throughout our history and i do not know where that comes from....now we are deep in the brown stuff and like many i cannot see a way out but the whole club Board/manager/players need to grow a set and prove they are worth the support that they get because it is waning with each passing week and yes if we go down Haller/Anderson/Lanzini/Rice/Fornals and maybe even Fab after hearing chelski looking for new gk will leave and whoever plays for us next season will be playing in an unatmospheric bowl with maybe 30/35thousand at a push watching.....so i am demanding not asking not pleading not being nice nope this girls passed that i am demanding that these so called players of ours step up grab there bits and show that they are men and not the pathetic little wallflowers who wilt at the first sign of hardship....prove to us that we should be proud to support you as you carry our hopes and dreams onto the pitch and we fans deserve that more than any others this season so COYI lets have it

we had a decent first season under Pellegrini but the second season syndrome set in and basically he was utter pants this season. things like training, recruitment, style etc takes time to change so I know a lot of us look at the owners and now probably Moyes but would we be in this mess if they had kept Moyes on and not gone for the billion dollar man Pellegrini?

yes its the owners fault for choosing him we can say. but could you really blame them for going for a man who had credentials, was well regarded in the game and had one the Prem? add to this that at the time I recall a big outcry from fans that Moyes wasn't the man, that they wanted better football etc and then they welcomed the news of Pellegrini.

my point here is just a discussion on whether our problems now stem basically from that decision - to appoint pellegrini and not keep on Moyes.

would we for example have spent our wad on fornals and Anderson, haller and yarmalenko and Wiltshire if Moyes had been in charge? I recall Moyes wanting the likes of dendonker - proved to be a hard working good player for wolves now.

I've said it before, if you want to compete in the top league now, you can't expect to 'out football' the other teams who have more money and bigger squads and players who are better at that. you have to design a side that is effective ala Leicester using pace and vardy, or wolves using skill and an unusual 3-4-3. then you recruit players for the system you decided on. what pellegrini did was just buy players who were 'good' on paper, but with no plan to implement them into a side.

now Moyes is picking up the pieces and has found out quickly there is no team here. we're a bunch of mercenaries in the most part, flung together with way too many same, same types - lanzini, fornals, yarmalenko, Anderson. we have no real cutting edge, no pace and not enough graft.

Watching that dross today and the couldn't be arsed attitude of the players made me so angry and i am angry with the players not the fans because who can blame people walking out on that i have never seen so many fans me included who just watched in total disbelief at the display going on in front of our eyes.One couple who sit near me and they are lets be kind but they are very senior in years openly weeping yes weeping the man just saying we have lost our club it is no longer the West Ham they both new and they both left at half time and i wish our board could of seen or heard them because they both said they would not be back West Ham are no longer West Ham,But they were not the only ones going our club is falling apart the fans who love the club have finally decided to start voting with there feet Liverpool midweek who here thinks ahhh you no us we'll turn them over its the kind of stupid thing West Ham do well i am afraid we wont and if Liverpool turn up and only put in a minimal effort it is going to be a citeh opening day scoreline or more and the players pffff they aint bothered to busy with social media and making stupid prank videos No the only ones who care are us the West Ham Fans and you could of taken 11 from the stands today and they would of put on a better show than those overpaid overrated fools we call players so thank you Mr Gold/Sullivan and Ms Brady for destroying a once proud club with a fan base the envy of many who stuck by the club through thick and thin well that is being eroded each week as you like social media so much go look at the various blogs/fan sites/you tube channels everyone that is EVERYONE of them cannot see any good coming out of this or any other season with you in charge and when you come to email us about getting our new season tickets do not expect to be busy because after seeing that rubbish for most of the season and the feeble attempts to make signings the usual smoke and mirrors the low ball offers and now the whining about how hard it is to get players in even on loan ha! you only have yourselves to blame this club is like our bubbles is fading and if we go down we will most probably do a Sunderland.

The only thing we can pray for is to go down. This constant insistence from out if touch pundits and commentators that relegation is bad and doom and gloom is nonsense. The perpetual clinging on by our fingertips is more doom and gloom in my book. The vast majority of West Ham seasons in the Prem that I can remember: Mid table bottom half finish, shit cup runs, might beat a big club at home but only a maximum of two, lose to the worst team in the league at home, maybe two, every 5 or so years a “cheap” maverick comes along and does a few step overs and rabonas. That’s it, that’s what we are, who we were and who we’ll always be. Embrace it fellow hammers. Average managers, owners and players. We couldn’t be any more mediocre than we are now under Moyes with the bird we have and the playing staff. So I do let’s forget about clinging on, only to cling on next year and the year after. Let’s take our medicine go down, cut the fat out of the team. We all know who they are. Use Noble, Snodgrass, Antonio to bring on some of our youth and go back to winning games. Playing some football. Let the fans have a season of joy. You never know a lot that have had enough might come back. Watch a bit of football, win most games and come back refreshed. The fans will be refreshed. You never know the owners might sell up and hand it on to someone else. Give a Gerard a chance to manage us in the Champs. Otherwise unfortunately all we are is the same as we were at UP but in a stadium we all hate.